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Interview with Christoph Meißner, historian at the Karlshorst Museum, about remembering the end of the 2nd World War at the site of the German surrender on May 8, 1945. Watch the full interview in German at our Youtube.
Eighty years ago, on May 8 at 11 p.m. CET, one hour before midnight, the horrendous Second World War in Europe ended with a few meager signatures: Commander-in-Chief Keitel signed the unconditional surrender to the Red Army on behalf of the German Wehrmacht — the military arm of German fascism. It happened in their own officers' mess in the East Berlin district of Karlshorst — a museum has been located in the building since 1967. Already on May 7, 1945, in Reims, France, the German armies on the Western Front had also formally surrendered — to the other anti-Hitler Allies, the USA, France, and Great Britain.
In an interview with the Dialogue Office, historian Christoph Meißner, curator and research associate at the Karlshorst Museum, explains how this historic event is commemorated at this institution every year on May 8, at 11 p.m. It has changed significantly since 2014 — parallel to the new war that the Russian regime under Putin has been waging against Ukraine for already eleven years. From 1941 to 1945, when the German fascists waged a brutal war of annihilation against the Soviet Union, the Russian Federation and Ukraine were both still part of that union.
But similar to the German Reich under Hitler, the Soviet Union under Stalin was a totalitarian and imperial dictatorship — with millions of people murdered, starved to death, displaced, and deported. This included the enslavement of numerous ethnic groups and people, including Ukrainians, which were briefly independent after 1918. In 1939, the German and Soviet empires in a secret agreement even agreed to divide Europe – and soon violently conquered the previously independent countries situated between them.
What does this date, May 8, 1945, stand for today? For Christoph Meißner, it's clear — "for liberation from National Socialism": The Nazi regime had spread the imperialism, arrogance, and racism from Germany to dozens of countries, including the Czech Republic, Poland, France, the Soviet Union, Great Britain, and many other countries, murdering millions. The Holocaust — the systematic extermination of the Jewish minority in Germany and the conquered countries — is a particularly perfidious component of this, but only a part of the gruesome crimes committed by the Nazis and their allies in Europe.
However, Christoph Meißner also warns that the term "liberation" should be critically examined. "Who was liberated?" The Germans who were previously perpetrators. That demands "not to see things in black and white — liberation vs. defeat — but we must truly try to illuminate the shades of gray. What does this liberation even mean? For whom, by whom, through what, and by what" did it happen?
Christoph Meißner offers a few answers. It deals, among other things, with how to deal with the Russian side's demands for participation in this time, while it itself is waging a brutal war every day in violation of international law and manipulating history and the present to justify its actions.
On May 9, the Russian government is planning a large military parade in Moscow — it is a parade of propaganda. Since it shall not only demonstrate its undiminished willingness to wage war and its disastrous rearmament, with which it is already destroying Ukraine every day and which is dangerous for everyone in Europe. It is also disguising its full-scale invasion of Ukraine and the attacks against the democratic countries of Europe as a supposedly "good cause" in alleged continuation of its victory in 1945 — as if, like back then, it were about a victory against fascists. Meanwhile, the own actions of the Russian regime are becoming increasingly similar to those of the German and other European fascists of that time — at home and abroad.
When Field Marshal Keitel signed the German surrender at 11 p.m. on May 8, 1945, it was already 1 a.m. in Moscow on May 9. The time divide back then was merely a matter of the clock. Today, it is regularly also a political and ideological one: those who commemorate the end of the war on May 8 usually have the sovereignty of Ukraine and the preservation of international law as important concerns. Unfortunately, those who celebrate May 9 are, in almost all cases also supporters of Putin's imperialist ambitions and his tyranny both domestically and internationally.
Although even these days, it is evident that amongst those within the sphere of influence of the Russian regime some people also feel a sense of commemoration of the war, as it, obviously, would be adequate: a remembrance in mourning for murdered people, destroyed countries, and traumatized societies. As well as an active acceptance of the huge task of achieving and securing peaceful coexistence between countries by overcoming violent dictatorships and protecting or restoring international law. Today, the focus should lie primarily on the freedom and rights of Ukraine.
We thank the Karlshorst Museum, the Demokrati-Ja initiative, our other partners, and everyone who supports such a commemoration.
Stefan Melle,
Director of the Dialogue Office
Director of the Dialogue Office
